Grant Lafontaine, the CEO of Whatnot — the primary live shopping company in America that just raised $225 million at an $11.5 billion valuation — sees this ballooning from a hundred billion-dollar market to a trillion-dollar market in the next few years.

“It’s very clear that live shopping in the US is going to be a huge, huge, huge market,” Lafontaine told me. “And it’s definitely going to be one of those shifts we see in e-commerce over the next 5 to 10 years. It’s sort of been happening in Asia over the past decade or so, where upwards of $1 trillion worth of products are being sold through live video in China.”

Whatnot has raised $225 million at an $11.5 billion valuation — the company’s valuation has doubled since last year. Cayce Clifford 2024/Whatnot

While traditional online shopping doesn’t allow you to touch or really engage with a potential purchase, live-shopping changes that. Sellers rotate items in front of the camera, answer questions instantly on a live chat and show you exactly what you’re buying.

The experience is more like shopping at brick-and-mortar store — without the hassle. 

For sellers, the appeal is equally clear: They get access to eager, attentive customers without having to pay for any real estate.

Whatnot CEO Grant Lafontaine says, “I think the core of [live shopping] is that people find shops they love that they build connections with.” Getty Images for Fast Company

“Live video is sort of the best way to bring in-person commerce online,” Lafontaine explained. “It’s almost as if anyone can set up a brick-and-mortar shop anywhere without building the building, and you can go live. So there’s a lot of other fun things you can do, including hanging out at midnight when nothing else is going on.”

The social, human element is key. Buyers get to know the sellers — many of whom are creating the goods themselves — and and can also chat with other buyers on the livestream.

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“With online e-commerce… you lose a lot of the fun factor,” Lafontaine acknowledges. “But I think the core of [live shopping] is that people find shops they love that they build connections with — it is a very human draw that keeps people coming back again and again.”

The model is already creating full-time careers. Whatnot now hosts sellers making anywhere from $50,000 to nine figures annually.

Whatnot merchants sell everything from collectibles to clothing to plants. Courtesy of Whatnot

Currently, the products on offer are primarily clothing and collectibles like trading cards, sneakers, and vintage toys. But Lafontaine’s ambitions extend far beyond Pokémon cards and fashion. He envisions Whatnot eventually hosting everything from cars to fresh produce, with the latter being a personal passion project.

“The one that I’m really excited for is eventually unlocking a bunch of food and drink categories,” Lafontaine told me. “It’ll be a really magical experience to be able to get fresh fish from a fisherman or get fresh produce from a farmer, see the food, see the field, see that it’s purely organic … Understand the process and get it to you, deliver it the next day — that would be the dream experience.”

The Whatnot experience is like shopping at a brick-and-mortar store — from your couch.

Of course, a fast-growing space with billion-dollar potential doesn’t go unnoticed. TikTok and Amazon are both making moves into live shopping, bringing massive user bases and deep pockets.

Since unveiling a TikTok live shopping feature in 2023, the app has seen millions of users tune in for the consumerism livestreams. Likewise, Amazon — which launched an online shopping product in 2019 —has also seen millions of customers log on for their shopping stream in recent years.

But Lafontaine, who founded Whatnot in 2019 just before the pandemic, believes his company’s focus on creators and customers has engendered enough loyalty to keep his user base coming back. The fact the company’s valuation has more than doubled in just the last year alone would suggest investors agree.

“A decade into the future, you’re likely to see upwards of 30+ percent of e-commerce [sold through live shopping],” he said. “That would be my wager.”

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No doubt, Uncle Sam’s outstanding obligation of $35 trillion – yes, that’s trillion, with a “T” – looks like a very, very big number. Also consider that in 2020, the total was “only” $27 trillion. Debt fears feel so right. And Trump’s promised tax cuts are dead ahead. Eek!

But it’s also true that pundits and politicos have been saying this – shrieking this? – for many, many years.

Uncle Sam’s outstanding obligation of $35 trillion – yes, that’s trillion with a “T” – looks like a very, very big number. Getty Images for the Peter G. Peterson Foundation

This may be the most controversial claim I’ve made in this column yet, but I’m not afraid – and more importantly, you shouldn’t be, either. That’s because when the numbers are sorted out in real terms, Uncle Sam actually has less debt than years’ past, not more. 

If that sounds like malarkey – and with all the noise, one certainly couldn’t be blamed for being skeptical – please allow me to explain.

The key point to understand here is that US debt is issued in US dollars. The other key thing to understand is that the value of those dollars has been shrinking drastically, courtesy of a multiyear, pandemic-induced tidal wave of inflation.

The upshot: the US’s real repayment costs on its debt also have shrunk drastically. Since COVID, official inflation rose fully 20%. But you and I know that  it was really more than that – maybe 30%. So, 2020’s $27 trillion got shrunk in real repayment terms by maybe $6-8 trillion.  

Honey, they shrunk the debt! Or, put another way, inflation is your enemy, but it’s Uncle Sam’s friend – always. Rick Moranis in the 1989 film “Honey, I Shrunk the Kids.” ©Buena Vista Pictures/Courtesy Everett Collection

Honey, they shrunk the debt! Or, put another way, inflation is your enemy, but it’s Uncle Sam’s friend – always.

As I have detailed in multiple past columns like this one: Excess central bank money creation sparks subsequent inflation, which is finally followed by wage growth. Excess money creation, then inflation, then wage growth. Always, always, always. 

Later still, Uncle’s nominal income rises — from more, but devalued, tax dollars. 

Factset, Congressional Budget Office

Ever wonder why the Federal Reserve wants 2% inflation?  Why not zero? Well, 2% seems small but really helps manage Uncle’s debt. Simple arithmetic. In 2024, the debt grows about $1.5 trillion, maybe $1.7 trillion maximum. But, 2% inflation decreases 2024’s $35 trillion of debt in real, after-inflation value by $700 billion—offsetting almost half the $1.5 trillion … Functionally vaporized!   

And the rest? GDP is $29 trillion. With 2% inflation and 2.5% real economic growth, GDP grows 4.5%–or $1.3 trillion.  Uncle Sam, in addition to the $700 billion inflation benefit, gets roughly $250 billion of that back in increased income tax. Subtract those two figures from, let’s say the high end of the US debt growth estimate of $1.7 trillion, and that leaves $550 billion in new debt.

United States Treasury

We’ve been discussing Uncle’s “total debt”. It hardly matters. That’s partly because since 2021, $1.3 trillion of its newly created debt was issued to its own agencies, kinda like their piggybanks, or like you lending to your spouse. No net interest paid out and nobody to foreclose. 

What does matter is what is called the “net debt” owed by Uncle to those outside of Uncle.  Accounting for that eliminates all but $250 billion at the most of what was left above.

We’re early in Uncle’s income catching up naturally from post-2020 inflation. It will — keeping Uncle’s debt servicing costs relative to its revenue below history’s highs—fully at or lower than the 1980s. Fact. We were ok then. We’ll be ok now.

since 2021, $1.3 trillion of its newly created debt was issued to its own agencies, kinda like their piggybanks United States Treasury

Another fact:  If we really were approaching a true debt crisis, long-term interest rates would be already maybe twice where they are now…or nose-bleed higher. The bond market prices reality, not hyperbole. How stupid do you think long-term lenders really are?   

More debt isn’t desirable. What’s really bad is government spending increasing as a percent of GDP — the growing vampire on our back. As I learned via Milton Friedman in the 1960s, if Uncle spends it….we pay for it, one way or another, via hiked tax rates or inflation or both.  

So, for now, don’t let the debt-phobics scare you. Sweat Uncle’s spending. Don’t sweat the debt. 

Honey, they shrunk it.

Ken Fisher is the founder and executive chairman of Fisher Investments, a four-time New York Times bestselling author, and regular columnist in 21 countries globally.

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